Listening to Parents: an Interview with Mary Crowley

This interview took place at the special event Collaborating with Parents in Early Childhood Care and Education of the UNESCO World Conference on Early Childhood Care and Education. Mary Crowley, the head of the International Federation for Parent Education in the United Kingdom - told us about such topical problems of parents education as involving parents, especially fathers; professional preparation of specialists working with parents; helping problem families. It provides the food for thought and professional reflection as well as unique sense of humor and warmth of quite informal conversation.

This interview took place at the special event Collaborating with Parents in Early Childhood Care and Education of the UNESCO World Conference on Early Childhood Care and Education.

Dear Mary, let’s begin with a very practical question - who pays for parents education services?

In the UK parents education services are usually free for parents. In some other countries it may be different. For example, in the USA parents normally pay if these services are not compensated from the regional budget. I know a program in Germany where rich parents pay and poor parents – do not. But I think it should be free because the state benefits from it.

How do you inform parents about the services? How do you mange to attract them?

We make printed materials, of course. It’s very effective to involve people who parents turn for help to – teachers, physicians… Better to get them to come and see your program. So they will be able not just to give a leaflet but to say: “These parenting courses are to the left from the railroad station. I have once asked them for a consultation and it was really great. I know a woman there – a nice person and good specialist, she works on Wednesdays and Saturdays” and so on… And parents themselves are the best recruiters.

Let’s talk about the specialists’ training issues that we face here in Russia in parenting education. The first common paradox is a group for fathers led by a specialist who is a woman because women prevail in the upbringing sphere.

Yes, it’s also common for the UK. It really matters if the person who is leading the group knows what to do and is appropriately trained for this purpose. It’s not their sex that matters. The experiences of fathers and mothers are not so different; we hope to develop the same emotional bonds with the child, the same realization of the child’s needs in both parents, so we don’t regard fathers as separate species. For me a concern is that women leaders may have less respect in fathers’ group, but women lead a lot of things in Russia, so it shouldn’t be that feeling.

Yes, that is the problem. Women are already leading and when fathers come to a group and see a woman leader they think that they can just lay back… 

 … and suppose everything is done for them. I mean it would be worth trying to recruit some men, but it’s not an easy work – you have to use diverse methods recruiting boyfriends, husband, sons – people you have already some influence over – and try to persuade them to do the training. Actually, men attract fathers more, fathers feel reassured when they see even one man in the situation. As a woman, when I come to a gathering and see there all men, it’s a little intimidating. So I think you should get one or two men involved to attract more fathers. Also, the environment of services for parents is sometimes “pink” – it’s best to avoid loads of pink and soft teddy bears and use trains and machines, sort of things men like. And the key for getting fathers – feed them. Offer them a meal – really, works every time. 

Another issue is that is our state institutions there are many beginning psychologists, graduates who don’t have their own parenting experience (leave alone their experience as children).

We think that anyone providing services for parents should be trained for this purpose. Not all psychologists are prepared to provide services for parents; it’s not only about expertise in psychology. One of the main things that impacts on parenting is that how I am feeling, and my relationships with my partner are of huge impact – it’s not just knowledge in child psychology but understanding of my own feelings. I can be very angry about something one day, some other time I can feel ok; when I am under pressure, worry or concerned about one of my children, I am like a bear – I attack. It is knowing myself, my relationships with my partner and also how I was parented, what my parents did me.

So we don’t think it’s fare to ask people to do this without special training. We have developed training courses for people who work with parents. They can be taken by people with medical or psychological training or even people not connected with this field, ordinary parents. It’s not about being expert in a child – when there is a problem in a child we do need a child psychologist. Most parents are not child psychologists, their problems are in their life and that’s tricky, so it’s most important to teach people to listen, because people are usually very bad at listening. I did a parenting program myself but I am very bad at listening (Mary laughs). People would listen to the parents and the parents would listen to the children. So, we would say that it’s not fare to ask young psychologists to do it without special training.

If there is such training they can do it without being parents themselves, because they will know what they are doing and be confident. But it’s a dangerous work because it’s dealing with people’s deepest emotions – it’s frightening to do it, I do not do it myself, I am a burocrat, I just talk to people, lovely audiences in Moscow (Mary laughs again). I do not work with parents, it’s too hard because it’s so important. 

The last question is about the hardest piece of work – working with deviant families where there are some types of child abuse and neglect or just very severe social problem that influence psychological and educational aspects. Are they somehow included into the general program for parenting education? 

 No, they need special extra. Though general education is also important, they require special programs. I think it would be helpful to have a psychological training for working with such families, there must be special training programs to work, for example, with criminal parents in jail, parents with serious mental illness, those are not ordinary services for parents. It would be wrong if someone try to do this work without special training. And another important thing that I have to mention is supervision and support for the person delivering this service because it’s hard. They need good professional supervision and support. You need to support them, otherwise they crack up.

I am acquainted with Swedish model of parents support and they propose to create inclusive groups with 4-5 so-called normal families and 1-2 families in severe social situations. They interact together, normal families create zone of possible development for problem families and the things work better.

Most of the groups I have seen in Sweden do not have trained leader, they hold to adult education model where group members help each other. I had arguments with my Swedish colleagues about that. They said, no, it would be fine. And cheap. I was very nervous because I would like the leader to have some special training in working with parents.

Interviewer - T. Archakova